Articles Heart FCLO.001

Published on October 7th, 2015

34

Can Rancid Pollock Liver Oil Cause Heart Arrhythmias?

Dr. Ron Schmid’s story of near death and recovery from heart failure has led many people to link their own heart problems to the consumption of Green Pasture Fermented Cod Liver Oil (FCLO) product, which lab tests show to actually be Rancid Pollock Liver Oil.  Although it can be difficult to establish cause and effect in human subjects, most of these people have reported that their problems with arrhythmia or irregular heartbeats began with FCLO consumption and stopped with its cessation.

Here’s three of those stories:

“I just read Dr. Ron’s article about what happened to him and it sounds a lot like what I went through.  At the time I was undergoing therapy to try to recover from issues that resulted from abuse and molestation and I thought the memories coming up were heart issues. I honestly don’t even know why I stopped taking it, maybe it was instincts saving me, but my heart has been better since I stopped.  I am convinced that you are saving people’s lives by coming forward with the info.”


“I eat a very ‘clean’ diet. I was taking quite a bit of FCLO from Green Pasture after finding it at the Weston A. Price Foundation conferences in Dallas and San Francisco.  About a year and a half or two years later, I started having a lot of heart issues.  Heart was racing, BP 210/140 and I came close to having a heart attack. I went to the ER twice because I felt like I was floating out of my body when my heart raced.  For some reason I stopped taking the FCLO, I just couldn’t stomach it any more. I haven’t had heart problems since stopping that product.”    


My Background: I am a 68 year old female now in good health who has been closely following WAPF nutritional guidelines since around 2003.  In 2005, I attended a conference and started using Green Pasture cod liver oil, 1 tsp daily,  and butter oil, 1/2 tsp. daily.  When their regular CLO from Norway was no longer available, I started using FCLO and butter oil.  In August 2013 I started using caramel Blue Ice Infused Organic Virgin Coconut Oil, with FCLO, butter oil, skate oil and coconut oil in it 2 tsp. a day.  I stopped using it around August 23, 2015 after reading your report.  

Health Impacts:  In 2008 I had a colonoscopy, and the doctor said I had heart arrhythmias during the procedure and to consult a cardiologist.  I did and wore a Holter monitor, which showed I had premature atrial contractions (PACs) about 5 percent of the time.  In 2011 I attended a health screening event, and the Physician Assistant there said I was in atrial fibrillation. From then on until August 2015, I would have intermittent atrial fibrillation, detectable by me by the inability to feel a pulse. At one point my doctor said I had a S3 cardiac sign. Since I stopped consuming the Infused FCLO product in August, I have not been able to detect any arrhythmias in my pulse.  .  .  Now that I have reason to be suspicious of the product, I also stopped giving it to my dog, whose liver enzymes had become elevated.”  

To read Dr. Ron Schmid’s story “Too Much of a NOT So Good Thing” click here. 

Has FCLO had an impact on your health?   Please share.

Hook-Line-Stinker-Ka#CFF6D2Isn’t it time to read Hook, Line and Stinker: The Truth about Fermented Cod Liver Oil?  Learn how lab tests show this product is rancid, low in fat-soluble vitamins . . . and not even cod!  Click here to get your free download.

 

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34 Responses to Can Rancid Pollock Liver Oil Cause Heart Arrhythmias?

  1. Craig says:

    Dr. Kaayla – I’ve read Dr. Rons account of his heart problems. It sounds like a really traumatic experience, and I am glad he has recovered, but I think its unfair to point the blame to fermented cod liver oil, As I’ve highlighted in my article here http://www.thehealthcloud.co.uk/fermented-cod-liver-oil-facts/ Dr. Ron claims that his heart problems would have been caused by any cod liver oil simply because he was taking far too much cod liver oil. It just so happens that the cod liver oil he was taking at the time was fermented cod liver oil.

    He even finds and quotes studies which explain that excessive cod liver oil will can cause these heart problems.

    This strongly suggests that any amount of cod liver oil (Fermented, Carlsons or EVCLO) would have caused his heart problems.

    The problem wasn’t with the product, but with Dr. Rons logic.

    • DrKaayla says:

      As Dr. Ron discusses in his article “Too Much of a (Not so) Good Thing,” he experienced no heart problems taking high doses of regular cod liver oil. His problems began with the use of Green Pasture Fermented Cod Liver Oil. I want to thank him for admitting he made a big mistake with overdosing and for warning others. That said, he was hardly alone in taking such a high dose. Sally Fallon Morell personally recommended 3 tbsp a day to me and to many others.Many people who have taken small doses have experienced heart arrhythmias and other heart-related symptoms that they now believe to have been caused by FCLO consumption, and which have gone away after they stopped taking the product.

      • Craig says:

        True, but the research Dr. Ron points to says that any cod liver oil can cause heart problems when taking in high dosages. Therefore, do you not think that his heart condition may have had its roots from when he was taking regular cod liver oil, and was only exasperated by the FCLO?

        I just think it is a bit unfair to point the whole blame at FCLO, when in reality, it looks like any cod liver oil would have caused the same problem, do you not agree?

        • Ron Schmid says:

          No again, Craig. The research I point to was done in the 1920s, when, as Dr. Price pointed out, the vast majority of cod liver oils were rancid. He specifically said heart disease was often a result. Consider too that after some 27 years of regular CLO I was running 8 or 10 miles a day and playing vigorous tennis several days a week. Within 12 to 18 months of FCLO I had developed symptoms of heart failure. We have had numerous other reports of various health problems in those taking FCLO. The severity is generally dose dependent; a lot of poison is always more dangerous than a little. I hope your dose is small now that GP and the WAPF have reduced their dosage recommendations drastically thanks to Kaayla, myself and many others.

    • Ron Schmid says:

      No, Craig. When first diagnosed in 2012, I did think it was simply too much CLO. But the fact is that I took an average of 2 tablespoons a day of unfermented CLO from 1979 til 2006 with absolutely no problems. Then I started FCLO and in 2007-08 I began to have symptoms that culminated in my diagnosis of advanced heart failure in 2012. I stopped the FCLO and have subsequently enjoyed a “miraculous recovery,” as my cardiologist puts it. When Kaayla’s report came out, it became obvious to me that FCLO was the problem, not simply cod liver oil.Do not be so quick to condemn another man’s logic until you have much more carefully considered the issues involved. I hope you take me seriously before poisoning yourself any further with FCLO.

  2. Joy says:

    You know, I remember having hardly any pulse and an irregular heart beat for the first time ever a few years ago and I thought it was emotional and ignored it and it went away, I had been using FCLO then for about a year or so ,then and stopped taking it because I could not see it doing any good and was so expensive for me . I cannot prove a thing, I kept no records, and routine check ups show my heart to be fine, but my gut feeling is that it could have been the FLCO . I am so grateful that I stopped using it when I did. I bought a bottle a little while ago and was again choking it down and threw it out when Kaayla’s report came out. I do not understand people still taking it now or saying they are, why take chances. After reading the above comments and more comments on other sites about people’s health issues going away when they stopped using the FCLO, and Dr. Ron’s experience, it is really scary to think of people who are still dosing themselves with it, now with the new lesser dosage guidelines of course, it is really frightening to think of the damage they may be doing to themselves and to their children. I read that the many deaths in great influenza tragedy were caused by taking huge doses of Bayer asprin prescribed by Bayer, something like 6 pills an hour and that is what killed people not the influenza itself. Well at least Weston Price has erased and now denies the large doses of FLCO they recommended so maybe it will take longer to hurt people with the new smaller doses, but still…who knows how much of something that is probably poison to the body it takes to cause illness. Pardon my spelling, spell check not working right.

    • Ron Schmid says:

      Very astute comments, Joy. That kind of common sense approach to what you ingest and how your body reacts will take you far toward a long and healthy life! And yes, the new small dose recommendations by GP and WAPF will help reduce the problems caused. But they continue to give it to infants and small children. A half teaspoon for a toddler translates proportionally to between one and two tablespoons for an adult. Dangerous. I will do my best to get the truth out about this product so that it will no longer be pushed on unsuspecting people.

  3. Pingback: Weston A. Price Foundation’s Shame - David Gumpert

  4. Mae says:

    I’ve been trying to remember an accurate timeline, and I’m pretty sure that I started taking fclo/bo in April of 2012. Within the first week I had a panic attack which included heart racing progressing to a faint heartbeat for several hours. At the time, I didn’t even think of a possible connection, since I did have one previous attack in Feb. ’12. But by June-July ’12, I started having regular (daily) heart palpitations. At the time I chalked it up to the caffeine I was drinking, and the fact that my mom became sensitive to caffeine around this age. Over the next 2 years, I would take fclo in 2-3 month spurts, then forget about it for a month or two, then go back on it. During this time, I continued to have heart palpitations — but since I was struggling with hormonal imbalance (one of the reasons I was taking fclo!), I knew that the palpitations could be related to that, though it still seemed odd since I was no longer drinking coffee. I also had mild panic attacks from time to time, even though I was managing my stress. Then early this year (2015), I realized I had some tooth decay and upped my fclo to a high dose and took it consistently for several months. Sometime in the spring I had 3 episodes of palpitations that were excruciatingly painful “thuds” and very scary to me. Looking back, I realize that these episodes coincide with my high and consistent fclo intake. I can’t prove anything; it’s all circumstantial. But I will say that since I quit taking fclo (July) I haven’t had a single heart palpitation that I can recall. Here’s hoping that by eliminating fclo they will be gone forever!

  5. Nicole says:

    You know, it’s interesting- I am just now learning of this controversy, because I haven’t been very active with WAPF for several years now, though I adhere to many of their dietary guidelines. I’ve taken cod liver oil or salmon oil for about 13 years now, but only once did I ever try the fermented clo. It was the encapsulated kind, about 5 years ago. Soon after starting on it I deveoped a strange reaction. I would wake up out of a dead sleep somewhere between 4 and 6 am with my heart racing out of my chest. It was extremely unpleasant. After going through that several times, I decided to stop the fermented clo in case in case that was the culprit. My symptoms subsided, and I never really knew if the clo actually had anything to do with it. It was pretty cost prohibitive anyway, so I shrugged it off and went back to Polor Power salmon oil. Anyway, it’s very interesting to read about this now.

  6. D. Smith says:

    Hi Joy, are you talking about the Amanda who is posting over at David G.’s blog (the Amanda who is nasty, rude and a twister-of-facts)?? Or which Amanda are we discussing here?!! There are a lot of Amanda’s in the world so I want to make sure we’re on the same page.

    I feel the same as you, that this “Amanda” at David’s blog might just be Sally Fallon. Wouldn’t bother me if it was, but when people tell outright lies, that’s when I go elsewhere. Until she either leaves or is banned from David’s blog, I do not care to go back. I just don’t need the aggravation from her and a couple of other recent posters, all supporting the argument that FCLO is wonderful and that we should be ashamed to be questioning anything about it (remember Victor what’s his name?). He was just over-the-top rude to everyone who wasn’t an out and out supporter of FCLO and Dave Wetzel.

    If those people are an example of what taking FCLO does to a person’s personality and constitution, I think I’ll just stick with raw milk, real butter, etc., in order to get my vitamins!

    I have a hard time staying abreast of what’s going on with this because I do not belong to facebook and don’t ever intend to do so. I just rely on people who are using fb to keep the rest of us updated if there are any big changes. 😉

    • Joy says:

      Oh God D. Smith, I am so glad to touch base with you! I got more angry at her for the way she treated you than her sneers at me, yes
      it is the same horrid heartless monster, Amanda , Oh and I called her a narcissist when I lit into
      in to her after you left!
      Ad mood swing Laurie went ballistic again and accused you and Gary and me of doing a high school gang thing, the popular kids and I was an huge ass kisser and it made her sick and she was there for the classy people on the blog to explain misunderstandings to her and she was really so funny, when you go back I hope you get a chance to read what I said to Amanda, about you. I thought you might sneak by and see it some time. Well if you read my hysterical comment above, I guess you know all, I finally did go to David G’ site, see I was so angry when I figured out what probably will happen. Listen Karen, I went to Cheeseslave’s site and looked at comments for the taped segments she made, D. Smith I don’t know if you know this, and by the way, I have a face book account that I have not gone to in years, but Cheeseslave taped 4 episodes interviewing Kaayla, and Dr Ron and Cathy, oh cannot remember her last name but she was fired from Weston Price and had horrible rashes all over her body from FCLO. And like Dr. Ron stopping the FCLO was the last thing she tried , I mean she was in terrible shape her body was breaking down. Anyway these taped interviews, are really revealing about the way Weston Price is run and the one with this lovely woman Cathy is very moving, one cannot help but like her at least I could not.
      I found
      her so sincere and smart and kind and lovable. And I did not have a chance to watch the Kaayla one all the way through but she was wonderful too. And I watched part of Dr Ron
      and he seems like a great guy. the last one I have not seen at all but it is about a guy who’s
      wife died of some kind of embolism and there have been other deaths like hers and they think these deaths were caused by FCLO, well Amanda comments
      were under the one about the guy who lost his wife was of course
      a complaint of some kind about how Dr Ron
      says he was let go by Sally
      and it wasn’t the truth, oh I think it was under the 4th tape, Just go to Cheese slave and look at comments under each of the tapings, there are not many. Anyway Amanda goes on to say that she now believes that there is no reason to have the fermentation in cod liver oil and she called David Wetzel and told him so and she wants to only have the old cod liver oil he used to make and she will not be buying any more FCLO and we all should learn to handle this problem with FCLO by using our dollars to teach David what we wanted, She also made the point again that her chapter leader supported Kaayla and Weston Price let it go and said nothing, so what I put together is the way Sally and Dave W are going to slid out of this, I think seeing cheeseslave’s interviews which are pretty damning , made them realize the jig is up, So they will have Dave stop making that gloop and have him make only regular Cod liver oil which Amanda/ Sally will promote, and Sally and Dave W will save face and now no one can criticize or investigate just how
      that putrid stuff is made. I
      just felt in my bones that snotty Amanda had been given permission to start laying the ground work to save Sally and Dave W.s asses. And I wanted to call them on it and not let them
      get away with it. More and more cases are coming forward and the FCLO really sounds dangerous and doesn’t even have much vit d either, and they are still recommending giving babies what would equal a tablespoon for an adult. Still cannot believe how Sally can live with herself or Dave W either. Anyway as I said and as Karen saw I did post this info on Dave G’s site, and I guess I was still so mad about it, them getting away with out having to admit how both of them were negligent by
      having him stop making the fermented shit, that I still did not make it clear enough.
      of course this is my big imagination, but why would Amanda suddenly announce she is not taking it any more ? Go to Cheese slave and read her comments, I do have a big imagination, but even I am shocked at how far I have taken this.
      I hope this was a little clearer, After I wrote my comment on David G’s site, I said I was not coming back I was too nauseous. Pardon my odd spacing and margins and stuff, my computer is being odd tonight, eating up words and pouting, Yeah it is Amanda’s lying that is the worst. I do not remember Victor so much because I stopped reading his comments they were so vicious and made no sense. Laurie, when she is not ballistic, is so boring and kind of sickening, oh she accused me of being simpering, a word I love, and that is how I feel when she is oozing up to Dave G, telling the Three Amigos is a good thing, yeah right Sally meant that as a friendly term, but I notice she gets all cozy when a man calls her on something. Gosh, using Kaayla’s site to catch up, hope she does not mind. So glad to get in touch with you again D.! And Karen I hope this is clearer
      .
      I am about to pass out it is so late where I am. but what a relief to be able to talk to some one about this. Thanks!

      • D. Smith says:

        Yes, Joy, I went to David G’s blog this morning and read a few comments, although I try to skip over amanda’s blatherings. According to one post from Steve Tallent it sounds as though amanda is now trying to do a slow back-up of her former position. I don’t ever remember her saying she stopped or backed off taking FCLO or that she ever even took it in the first place, she was just adamant about defending it for WAPF, for whatever reason. I see what you mean now about her doing the groundwork for Sally and Dave Wetzel and Chris Masterjohn so they can also do a slow back-up and save face. It won’t work but they can sure try!

        At any rate, I really don’t give a hoot what goes on because I never took it and only tried the regular CLO for a very short time and couldn’t tolerate the junk. It was many years ago and I’m glad now that I listened to my body when it told me to avoid fish oil until I could find something good. As of now, I’m still not taking anything other than vitamin D3 supplements because I do not trust fish oils. However, with the info from Randy Hartnell, I may look into it again.

        I do follow at David G’s blog every day just to see what’s happening because I’m also following the story re: Michael Schmidt and Montana Jones.

        I have only watched the interview @ cheeseslave with Dr. Daniel. Not crazy about the cheeseslave and stopped following her several years ago.

        We need to keep following the story with FCLO, but try not to obsess about it too much, Joy. You’ll spend too much valuable LIFE time on something we can’t do anything about. If all the hoopla so far helps get the junk off the market, that’s about as good as we can hope for, I expect.

        Take care.

        • Joy says:

          Wow, I was just thinking the same thing as you have said, about letting it go. I was walking home and thought how good my real life is, actually it is not great at the moment but compared to being involved in the debate, cause the Weston Price people, are toxic, so glad to hear I am not crazy, and there have been other attempts to back up and come out on the winning side slowly. And it is a waste of my energy, but thanks for reinforcing that as well. I took the fermented crap for a while and got rapid heart beat with it, which went away after I stopped, but did not realize it till read about some of the problems it causes. And I do have to get a good vit d 3 supplement, I have one, but it is old. I do not now trust fish oils either so I will be looking around for a good d3
          And you are right the best we can hope for is that FCLO is pulled off
          the market and it looks as if that will happen. So glad about that, still if I ever run into Chris ( sells his soul) Masterjohn, I will punch him in his snout!

  7. D. Smith says:

    This was just posted over at David G’s blog by Gordon S. Watson (Oct 28, 2015 @ 10:43 a.m.)

    [quote] direct from Green Pastures, today we get a report by a scientist who investigated their fermented cod liver oil – the first few sentences of which leave me more confused than ever :
    … “The key assertion of Dr. Daniel, that fermented cod liver oil (FCLO) as manufactured by Green Pastures cannot be from the fermentation of cod liver oil (CLO) or fats, is confirmed. Fermentation experts would all agree with Dr. Daniel that oils/fats cannot be fermented. However, Green Pastures does not claim, neither do they advertise, that their product is produced by the fermentation of CLO but by that of the carbohydrates found in the whole cod livers themselves.”
    … Publicizing this report, Dave Weitzel demonstrates good faith. The butter oil, yes. He’s a world leader with that miraculous stuff. But I won’t be ingesting anything rendered from rotting fish guts. [end quote]

    I knew my money was a Dr. Daniel for a good reason. I really never doubted her motives or her findings for a nanosecond. Looks like you were onto something, Joy, when you said people touting the stuff (read: WAPF et al) would have to be laying the groundwork to backtrack and still try to save face. Poor Victor – he’ll suffer apoplexia over this!

    I don’t know anything about the butter oil (how it’s made) but wouldn’t ghee be basically the same thing? Truthfully, I don’t think I’d trust Dave Wetzel to supply me with water much less “health supplements” or “superfoods” as WAPF tends to want to call them.

    ;-\

    • joy says:

      D. Smith, I just snuck over to David G’s site and he said that report was critical of Kaayla’s and he looked up the author’s credentials and they were pretty worthless, but he works for a big drug company I think, you probably have been to David’s site yourself by now. Listen the woman who sells me raw milk says that the capsules of GP’s butter oil are very strange, she knows butter cause she sells grass fed butter, bright yellow, I buy it all the time, and she knows how to make Gee and she thought butter oil was just Gee too. But she had me look at them and some of the see through capsules seem to have a very pale yellow substance in them and others have pure white stuff in them, she wanted to pay to have them tested for having veg oil in them she sometimes gets farmers who try to mix vegetable oil in with their butter, but she always tests it by heating it up and I do not know which oil rises to the top but then she never uses that farmer again. My friend cannot figure out why there would pure white capsules mixed in with the pale yellow ones and why they should not all be bright yellow, she says it smells bad too. Some one on this blog under a different subject matter said he heated up the GP butter oil and a fourth of it was wax. Now it does say on the label that bees wax was added for thickening, but my friend said that bees wax is yellow too, she has worked for years with a bee keeper, so that does not explain why such pale yellow and white capsules, when you look at pictures of other people’s butter oil it is bright yellow as is Gee. And why would you need all that wax??? Amanda is saying how great GPs plain cod liver oil is, Give me a break, I am with you I would never take anything from GP,
      I love how Dr Ron just comes out and says ” FCLO is a con and has been since the beginning.”
      Also about the butter oil, Argentina has a lot of natural arsenic in the soil and so there are always supposed to be checks on the levels by the people who sell the dried liver powder. So wonder if that ever crossed anyone’s mind since that is where GP was secretly getting cheaper butter.
      Kaayla tested the butter oil and it came up rancid too. I never doubted Kaayla for a moment either, I mean, why would anyone go out on a limb like that with out a really good reason and I like her style anyway. And I find people who have a really good sense of humor usually are highly ethical and more honest. than most people. I have no way of proving that, just been my experience.

  8. D. Smith says:

    My new philosophy: “You may choose to look the other way, but you can never again say you did not know.” – William Wilberforce

    • Joy says:

      D. Smith , I love it!

      • D. Smith says:

        Hey Joy, I saw your post over at David G’s blog just a bit ago and decided to share this link with you, because you mentioned that you thought you might have to revamp the way you eat, or think about eating. You may already have seen this article, or know of this blog, but if you haven’t it’s a great place to snoop around after you’ve read this one. It’s not very long but there’s a lot of valuable information in it. It’s the Mediterranean WOE (way of eating) most people don’t realize is the true Mediterranean Diet. Many people today follow what they think is the Mediterranean Diet and it’s not even close to the real thing.

        http://www.tendergrassfedmeat.com/2010/10/05/call-it-medical-not-mediterranean/

        There are a lot of interesting links along the right-hand side of the page at his blog. Hope you enjoy!

        • Joy says:

          Wow, that was very interesting to read, thanks! I did know that the canola oil the Medicine diet recommends is really bad for you, but never thought about the rest of the diet being suspect. Well, the lack of fat, of course. And look at the Eskimo traditional diet, all that blubbery seal meat and did they have any vegetables? Maybe they ate seaweed, but it would have been uncontaminated sea weed. I think they ate wild berries and dried them. Maybe the whole thing is that traditional diets, what ever they were and as wildly different from group to group , were healthy because there were so few contaminates in the world in the olden days. I mean you had to eat what you could raise, gather or hunt in the area you lived, no big choices. Any way it was very helpful to find out the real Mediterranean diet and I am looking forward to the exploring the links on the side. Thanks again!

  9. D. Smith says:

    Can someone tell me if the new site is up and running yet, and if there will be articles to read there concerning nutrition? I have been unable to locate anything online (pppf.org is that the right thing)?

    WAPF has kinda been my go-to place for nutrition information (especially regarding things such as minerals, salt, fats, cholesterol, etc.) and now I’m at a loss as to know what to believe from that site. Once they are caught in a lie, it’s hard to know how much of their other stuff is suspect. At least that’s how I feel, personally.

    I do follow Dr. Malcolm Kendrick regarding the fats and cholesterol story, but he’s not into giving out other nutritional advice (he’s a Scottish cardiologist). So I’m really needing a place to go for up-to-date information on REAL foods. Since a lot of the other places where I used to go for info are also pretty much WAPF based, I don’t frequent those too much anymore. It’s hard to know what to do!

    Can anyone recommend a good place to go to have DAILY nutritional conversations and get good advice?

    It’s too bad someone “in the know” doesn’t have a forum (not a blog mind you, a forum like mine) where it’s much easier to have a running coversation. Blogs like David G’s are horrible to follow because everything takes forever to show up and then you have to do a hunt-and-search to find the most current stuff. I don’t know who set that site up for him but it’s awful. Just awful. If anyone is interested in participating at my forum (not the same as a blog, remember) follow this link and go to the top of the page and click Register, sign up with whatever name and password you want, and start communicating! We talk about all kinds of things (current events, weather, farming, alternative medicines, recipes, etc) not just food, though. Here’s the link: http://thepolkadotapron.freeforums.org/index.php

  10. D. Smith says:

    I’ve just had another thought about the use of FCLO (in all its rancid glory). Has anyone addressed what might happen to a person who is taking meds, or even multiple meds, AND consuming a rancid, putrid oil?? The meds are bad enough but to consume them and also consume a rancid oil – – hoo boy, that could be a really bad scene, no?

    • joy says:

      I sometimes go to the website Healthwyze, they are whistle blowers, and I do not agree with some of their personal beliefs, but they seem very committed to helping people sort health things out and extremely diligent with their research. I remember they were really against canola oil. I get their fake coffee and deodorant. As I said they seem very diligent and no longer recommend vitamins and minerals because they have seen the so called Real Food vitamins change their ingredient to artificial vitamins put in a yeast broth .which they feel is dangerous for us. Even though the label says that everything is made with organic real foods still, it is not any more, and I know first hand because my son used to say, as did the company that made them, that since they are real food, you can take them on an empty stomach and he then he started vomiting when he would take them on an empty stomach, I threw out over a hundred dollars worth of these vitamins because I did not feel they were working anymore and did not want that extra yeast in my system,. . I did depend on olive oil for years but of course we now know how tricky it is to get pure olive oil any more.. Glad you are researching this and thanks for your forum link, am looking forward to the experience. And yes, great point about medications and rotten cod oil. And this time I am not going back to Dave G’s website for a while, for real, am going to report the FCLO to the FDA and other agencies, but not till after Dec 15th when I have time to sit down and craft my words, and use what slender connections I have with semi important people to try and get it recalled, but oh how I wished I had listened to your advice more and not gotten caught up in it again. I am glad I am telling you this because NOW I would be too embarrassed to comment over there, oh I may tell them that I intend to do all this stuff after my acting job is over so I can really do it right, because I am worried about the children. Foolish Joy am I, I admit it!

      • D. Smith says:

        I used to read at Healthwyze and I have their book, but I disagreed with a few of their ideas, just like you did/do.

        It’s funny you should mention whole food vitamins because we’ve just been having a conversation about that at my forum. A lot of the whole foods are “grown” on a medium of yeast (s. something or another, I’d have to go look it up). The only product I can find that seems remotely “whole food” is the Madre Labs stuff. They have a Berry one with antioxidants, and a Vit C one, and a Greens one, and a couple of others I can’t think of right now. They seem pretty decent but it’s hard to tell because no DV or RDA’s are given, which would be hard to do with real food, too, so that would make sense I guess, huh?! I mean, you eat an orange or a lemon and how much vit C did you get? Who knows. But I try to take very few supplements because if you eat well, you don’t really need too many extras. In the part of the country where I live we do take extra D3 all year and I take a M7-K, even though I drink raw milk. Since I don’t consume the exact same amount of milk on an every day basis, I take the supps because I want to have good and healthy bones and be able to fight off colds and flu, etc. I definitely have healthy bones because I’ve put them to the test a couple of times over the past year. ;o)

        I also take collagen daily, too, which is good for everything it seems, and everyone should be taking/using it. I make homemade jello for my grandkids using it and flavored tea as the base. They love it and it’s soooo good for them. They do eat bone broth but it’s a lot easier to get kids to eat jello!

        • Joy says:

          Damn my cat, I just had written an email describing what all I take and thanking you for reminding me of collagen which I have and have not taken for a while and the cat jumped up on my keyboard and it all got erased. Well I did say your life sounds really cozy with the Grandkids and jello and everything. I want to make my own jello as well! Anyway if you go to Healthwyze and go to vitamin recommendations it will explain the whole S thing with the yeast and why they think it is bad for the body, on their recommendation I have been taking hemp powder for natural amino acids, what ever they are, I used to know but have forgotten, I like the hemp, I have it with grass fed milk and some vitamins.
          Also took their advice about taking liquid chlorophyll to get more oxygen in the cells, I get the organic brand from Swanson’s no gmo stuff for me. Also doing sort of a variation Healtwyze has on the, Budwig diet, as a cancer preventative, with flax oil and grass fed cottage cheese. I love it, I stay full for hours and hours with that for breakfast, though only have to do it once a week. I do liquid magnesium at night and use non gmo organic vit c powder made in Scotland, when I remember, just got some vit d3 not fish oil by Jarrow, could not find any vit A which was not from fish oil or soy bean oil. I can remember the days of Adele Davis and vit a and d were usually together in a capsule and even if you had them separately you would always take them together. More research. I do eat two free range local chicken eggs a day. I have never made bone broth will try after Dec 15th,
          But make my own kfir. I do not even know what what an M7-K is but think I have seen in health food store, I will look it up, assume it has something to do with calcium. Thanks for some new ideas!!

          • D. Smith says:

            That all sounds pretty good except for the flax oil. I do not use flax oil for the same reason I do not use, and never did, FCLO. Most flax oil is rancid from the get-go, so is olive oil. I use mostly coconut oil or avocado oil, sometimes on salad I use walnut oil.

            I use hemp seed, not powder. I mix it with my “horsefeed” and it’s powerful stuff for the immune system.

            The MK-7 is the bioavailable form of vitamin K, which can also be gotten through raw milk, gouda cheese, etc. I use raw milk but as I say, not the same amount every day, so I supplement because K it is so very good for bones etc. So is boron, a trace mineral.

            Collagen is my go-to for overall health of my internal and external self!

            But all of this is just me and my choices. Your program sounds good, too. We all do what we know how to do, right?

  11. Sue says:

    I have mitral valve prolapse, Hashimoto’s and celiac and do occasionally have arrhythmia. But for the past two or three days they’ve been the worst ever. And I’m at the point where I’m thinking something’s just not right. So I tried to think about what I’ve done differently in my diet, and one of those things was adding the fermented cod liver oil (I previously was taking Carlsons Cod liver oil). When I googled it, I found this site and I have to say I’m surprised to hear that something I started taking which was supposed to be good for me could possibly be the cause. I plan to stop taking the FCLO (I was taking 1tsp) as of right now and will let you know if my arrhythmia stops. Thanks for the information.

  12. Katherine says:

    Hi, I am shocked with this info because I am giving Blue Ice Royal Butter Oil / Fermented Cod Liver Oil Blend – Non-Flavored to my little baby!!. I will suspend it immediately. Please let me know what cod liver oil is safe and healthy for a 5 months baby. Thanks a lot!!

    • Cp says:

      None! The vitamin A levels in any Cod Liver Oil are too high for a baby. Use fish oil if you want the high omega 3’s. Or use a commercial formula. They’re not perfect, but they are highly researched, unlike the WAPF recipe which has NO research behind it. If you are not breastfeeding, your baby is entirely dependent on formula for its growth and health. Don’t take chances. Look for the lowest protein formula that contains lactose (instead of corn syrup).

  13. Julianne says:

    This is interesting. About 3 years ago I went to a Sally Fallon talk and bought the FCLO. I have a pretty clean diet, paleo with lots of plant foods. I was also using coconut oil and cream. I had my cholesterol measured and my LDL was through the roof! 7.5 nmol/L My doctor wanted me immediately on statins, I assured her I would tackle it with diet.
    I had more advanced testing and my oxidised LDL was extremely high. My husband who also had a highish LDL did the same test but almost no Ox-LDL. He was not taking FCLO, but high quality fish oil that has the lowest oxidation available.
    Logically to me fermented meant oxidised so I threw it away and also stopped using coconut oil / cream as some people find it puts up their LDL.
    I’ve not had the oxidation levels retested as it is expensive – but my LDL dropped to 4 within a few weeks.

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